Flour

Pete has sent the the list of available flours below. Flour ordering is trickier this year because we are in foreign parts, we are fewer in number than usual, virtually no one is driving so that any excess can’t be taken home.
Please state what flours and other ingredients you would like to be available and a rough estimate of how much.

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21 Responses to Flour

  1. adamnewey says:

    I’m hopeless at estimating amounts, but at a very rough guess … we’ll use more T65 than anything else, and it would be good to have some T110 and seigle (light or dark, don’t mind), plus maybe a small bag of 5 grain melange? Actually, the 4 grain looks considerably cheaper – can’t believe sunflower seeds are so much cheaper than poppy … I don’t think I’ve ever used T80, but am happy to improvise with anything!
    Is anyone bringing starter with them? Or maybe Brad has some that’s ready to use?

  2. bennett57 says:

    I’ll handle any leftovers so best we have a bit too much than too little.
    I asked Mick to post this list but I suggest, to get the debate rolling further, for about 10 (?) people baking:
    From this mill: 25k T65, 25k T130 rye, 5k of T85 light rye, and 5k each of the two spelts.
    I will buy 20 kilos of T150 (wholemeal) elsewhere. Also I will buy 5k each of the T80 and T110 wheats elsewhere as they are very good and much cheaper. I believe we should buy seeds packaged individually from the organic supermarket as well as any other ingredients etc. If anyone wants T55 baguette flour I will buy some in the supermarket (70-80 cents a kilo).
    Any other flours required, please specify.
    Does this seem reasonable, too much or too little? To me, it seems like a lot. I am a novice at these events.
    I’ll make sure that there are wheat and rye starters up and running in appropriate quantities for the event.
    I will collect the flour in the week before the event.
    Pete

  3. bakingben says:

    As Adam says it’s hard to say how much flour but dark/light rye as well as the T65 would be a good start and a small amout of wholemeal wheat.

    • bennett57 says:

      Thinking a bit more for those that haven’t used T80, it behaves a bit like T65, obviously higher extraction, but tends (in my hands anyway) to make dough that “runs” but gives a lovely flavour. T110 is easier to use and makes very tasty bread indeed. I tend to use them both as part of the blend of flours for my bread instead of the white flour but they make very tasty bread all alone. I made nice Welshcakes with T80 a couple of days ago.
      Low extraction rye can be a bit flavourless but does add a fascinating something to the texture.

  4. Have to confess to being a bit of a T-anything novice (although I’ve used a fair bit of T45 for pastry), so I think I’ll leave the choice to others who know more about this sort of thing. I’m very happy to use whatever’s there and would quite like the opportunity to use French flours while there (and Ed will be the same). As for quantities, at a rough guess I’d be surprised if we used any more than the quantities you’ve set out above Pete. Does anyone know roughly what quantities got used/ordered at the previous events for comparison?

    • adamnewey says:

      Ditto to all that! The T80 sounds very interesting. And I must confess that I would quite like to have (yet another) go at mastering baguettes, so a bit of T55 wouldn’t go amiss.

  5. Previously we’ve worked to pretty wide margins because the spoils have been divided up at the end of the event. It wouldn’t be too hard to calculate. There’s about 500g of flour to an 800g loaf – how many and what type of loaves do you want to make + 50%?
    I’m easy – just prop me on a stool in a corner with a jug of cider.

  6. bakingben says:

    and some butter for croissants. I used half a kilo making some croissants for the first time today. They were 100% home milled spelt and with a 3 stage Italian style leaven. I wouldn’t recommend using spelt for croissants but I have a lot to use up.
    Ben

  7. stig23 says:

    Celtic Bakery does a spelt croissant which doesn’t look as good as those – theirs are a bit worthy and doughy – will be good to see you soon Ben.

    I have never knowingly used T-anything so I can’t comment on what kind of flour to get. I’d like to try making all the obvious things – baguette, croissant, brioche – and other things French as suggested by comrades-in-baking. I’d also like to nail fougasse Mick, which always looks sublimely simple when you make it and doesn’t quite translate at home.

  8. Brad says:

    Is there sufficient interest in spelt that we might want to get a full 25 kg? The price is only about 3 times the 5 kg. amount, no? Pete, can you ask for a discount? Usually they offer some percent off the prices, which seem high for wholesale France. Personally I’m OK with what has been suggested in prior posts.

  9. bennett57 says:

    I also think the prices are high (I have searched for “haute gamme”) but there is a problem that everything here has been ridiculously inflated in recent years in the food world, not just the quality stuff. I think this inflation has had a negative effect. With people short of money things don’t sell.
    I will buy what anyone wants, Brad. Your point on the price difference for 25 over 5 kilos is a good one. As for discount, I will have to play it by ear, although I doubt they will for these quantities…
    If I buy 25 kilos of spelt I would only buy the one type, and left to my own devices would buy the non-intégrale (which I prefer but is in fact cheaper) but do let me know which you prefer. In fact, at the event I would be very interested in the input from you all on spelt use.
    I spent a time when I made croissants for us every week, froze them uncooked and defrosted them overnight to be baked for our breakfast. I used Dan’s recipe with leaven and yeast and his method. Has anyone got this recipe and method and could they post it, please?
    After a few more days I will post my up-dated list for your approval!

  10. bennett57 says:

    PS to the above – these prices for spelt are very reasonable round here.

  11. Well I can show you how to make MY fougasse, Stig – but as you know I don’t do things correctly.
    My view on spelt is if you go for 25K there’ll still be 20.5K left at the end of the weekend – but then people might be spelt freaks.

  12. bakingben says:

    Yes, I think the hype surrounding spelt is over-inflated especially as most spelt varieties are apparently not pure spelt strains but crossed with wheat to make it perform better and then how can you justify it costing twice that of wheat, at least where I bought mine from the farm.
    Ben

  13. bennett57 says:

    I will be buying the seeds/grains etc by Friday of this week (probably last time I will be in Chambéry before the event). Do I gather I do not need to purchase wholemeal flour?
    What do we want? They are not too expensive.

  14. Pete, I think you just have to use your judgement. Everyone has to pay up and work within the available ingredients. The only people driving from the UK are Dianna & Vic and they are leaving shortly for a holiday in France, so I should just buy a bit of wholemeal if it is available and sod the cost.

  15. stig23 says:

    This is the Dan croissant recipe from the first Bethesdabakin’ – which uses yeast and leaven. Is that the one you are looking for?

    Dan’s breadwiki criossant dough
    From the old Bethesda Baking wiki (now retired)

    for the dough:
    500g French T55 flour (from http://www.flourbin.com ) or strong white flour
    50g caster sugar
    1 1/4 tsp salt
    50g unsalted butter, softened
    about 200ml milk, to make a firm dough
    1 tsp easy-blend yeast (*increase to 1 3/4 tsp if freezing the croissants before the final bake)
    150g white leaven
    1 large (60g) egg

    for rolling:
    300g unsalted butter, softened until it’s pliable.

    to finish:
    2 – 3 egg yolks, beaten with 25ml water and a pinch salt

    1. Measure the flour, sugar and salt into a mixing bowl. Rub the butter through the dry ingredients until it vanishes. In a separate bowl dissolve the yeast in the milk then beat in the leaven and the egg until smooth. Add this with the flour mixture and work to a firm dough, adding more milk if necessary. You want the dough to roll easily without flowing, so I keep it drier than I would a bread dough. Knead the dough for 10 – 12 seconds, then replace the dough in the bowl and leave for 1 hour in a cool place.

    2. Lightly flour the worksurface and roll the dough out into a rectangle about 1cm thick, and pat slices of the rolling butter over two-thirds of it. Smooth the butter together with your fingertips so you end with an even layer of butter that covers two-thirds of the dough without any gaps and leaves a 2cm border around the edges. Then fold the unbuttered layer in over half the buttered one, and finally fold that over the remaining buttered section. This is called a single fold.

    3. Lightly flour the worksurface again and roll the dough out as above to about 1cm thick, but this time make sure that the folded edges become the long sides of the rectangle. Give the dough another single turn, using a pastry brush to dust away any flour from the dough before you fold it. Then roll the dough out again, again making sure the folded edges become the long sides of the rectangle. Then wrap the dough in plastic, and chill in the refrigerator for 1 – 2 hours. At this point you have given the dough three single folds.

    4. Give the dough another two folds, then wrap the dough up well and chill overnight (12 – 24 hours). The following day give the dough another two or three single folds – two single folds will make the layers very pronounced, three single folds will make the layers more flaky and soft. The fashion at the moment is to use fewer folds to show off the layering, but it doesn’t produce a very tender result.

    5. For the final rolling try to work somewhere cool, and at a time when you wont be disturbed. Chill the dough for another hour then roll the dough out to about three-quarters to one cm thick, into a rectangle about 20cm by 50cm or so long. Using a sharp heavy knife trim half a cm from the long edges of the dough to keep the shape crisp. Then cut triangles about 15 cm at the apex, and stack them up out of the way on the worksurface so they fan out a bit.

    6. Line a tray with foil or non-stick baking parchment. Stretch the point of the triangle a little then place it on the worksurface and roll the dough up tightly. Lay these on the tray then repeat with the remaining dough. Many top pastry chefs freeze the croissants at this point (*using the increased amount of yeast), so if you want to you can pack the croissants very close on the tray, then freeze the whole tray and pack them into a zip-lock bag or box once frozen. Otherwise space the croissant about 6 – 8 cm apart.

    7. Cover the croissant and leave to rise. If they’ve been frozen they will need 2 – 3 hours to come to temperature and then another 2 – 3 hours at 21C – 24C to rise, all the time covered with plastic wrap to stop them drying, though you must use you judgement here in case they rise faster or slower. If the dough hasn’t been frozen then leave covered with plastic wrap until they have doubled in height.

    8. Heat the oven to 220C (200C fan-assisted). Brush the tops of the croissant with the egg yolk wash sparingly and bake for 30 minutes until a rich golden brown. Leave to cool on the tray.

  16. bennett57 says:

    The flour is bought. We will have exactly 100 kilos. Seems like a lot, but I couldn’t really imagine an event like this with less.
    Interestingly, Dupuy Couturier are an official partner for the 4th Mondial du Pain. Let’s hope it’s good stuff.

    • adamnewey says:

      Yes, it sounds like a lot – well, we’ll just have to make sure we do plenty of baking! Thanks very much, Pete, for taking on the role of flour monitor. See you on Friday.
      Adam

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